Nightcrawler's Catholic Roots

[Fasheem]

I feel like I've stumbled into a strange suburb of bizarro world. No offense, but I'm finding it kinda hard to understand your arguments, BAMF boy, with all those extra (?) and often contradictory "nots".

I'm from the radical group that totally hates the entire business of religion (especially that religion) invading my favorite comic. I know I'm just biased but that doesn't make me like it any better.

All this religion-talk has given my the intense desire to watch Father Ted. (Again.) Talk about misrepresenting the church...

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"I still have a soul? Then where did I get this 20 bucks?" - Indie Rock Pete, Diesel Sweeties

[Slartibartfast]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fasheem:

All this religion-talk has given my the intense desire to watch Father Ted. (Again.) Talk about misrepresenting the church...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're incorrigible, Sheemie! Never change! *hug*

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===={::??@m??::}====
~Award-winning designer of Norway's lovely crinkly edges.~

[Nocturne]

nice points Slartibartfast... yeah i am sure some people can identify with him and his religion, but there are others like myself who cannot... and i have say about making him religious giving him 'insight and compassion' that i take a little bit of offense to this. i am sure you did not mean it, but i run across this atitude a lot, and it tends to touch a nerve.

when i started reading X-Men i went straight to the source and started from the beginning, with TPB collections and the like. i did not know he was catholic going in. aside from the first few issues written by Wein, in the early days i found it wonderful that there was (as far as was known at the time)a non religious character (him and Colossus both) displaying such compassion and morality when most often characters who are athiest are often shown to be immoral, (such as wolverine, love the character, but he definately has morality issues) when that is not the case. we are individuals, some are good people some are bad. we can be just as moral as the most devout christian. being religious does not automatically make you a good person. by the same token, not being religious does not make you a bad person, does not make you lack compassion or faith (you jsut put that faith in different things than a god), does not make you lack morals.

overall tho, i just do not like it when a character is defined by their religion. having it as a partof their character, fine. i could have happily lived with him being catholic, so long as it did not overshadow the rest of his peronality. but lately he has become a character who is defined by his religion, when there is so much more to him than that. Storm fell victim to this as well, she was 'the pagan weather goddess' and not too much more. she was defined by the goddess aspect of her personality and not until she questioned her own faith in the 170's did she (in my eyes) truly grow as a character.

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[This message has been edited by Nocturne (edited February 28, 2002).]

[Slartibartfast]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nocturne:

in the early days i found it wonderful that there was (as far as was known at the time)a non religious character (him and Colossus both) displaying such compassion and morality when most often characters who are athiest are often shown to be immoral, (such as wolverine, love the character, but he definately has morality issues) when that is not the case. we are individuals, some are good people some are bad. we can be just as moral as the most devout christian. being religious does not automatically make you a good person. by the same token, not being religious does not make you a bad person, does not make you lack compassion or faith (you jsut put that faith in different things than a god), does not make you lack morals.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, and I did not mean to imply that those without religious leanings are immoral or uncompassionate. I'm not religious, and, despite an apparent lack of an ability to choose non-offensive words, I think I'm a decent person. I've encountered prejudice similar to what you allude to myself, and it was not my intention add to that. Pardon my semantic blunder.

You're also right that both characters had these traits from the start. I've read those TPB's too. All I meant was that this additional aspect of his character gave those who are religious an additional point of attachment to that character. People are drawn to things like themselves and some people have said they are drawn to him specifically because he is a Christian.

My point: We all like Nightcrawler for some reason. There's some trait to that character we can identify with, or admire. Religion was a drawing point for some people, and the current situation shows ignorance or plain negligence of religious tradition on the part of the creators. Hardly a way to win over new readers, or keep old ones. It's hypocritical.


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===={::??@m??::}====
~Award-winning designer of Norway's lovely crinkly edges.~

[BAMF boy]

wow...looking back on it, I really did use a lot of 'nots' ooops. I think I did in fact contradict myself Fasheem, thanx for bringing it to my attention. The first sentence of my last post should read, "I don't believe that the writers were trying to offend Catholics..."; sorry for the confusion. While I'm responding to you ,Fasheem, I must ask: why do you "totally hate religion"...especially my religion??

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BAMF!!
-Kevin Reagan

[Fasheem]

I don't totally hate it, as long as it keeps its distance. I've had religion crammed down my throat since I was born and I was forced to get Confirmed. I have to go to church every week when I don't believe it is the right thing and so the last thing I want is to read a preachy comic. Especially when it is my favorite character doing all the preaching.

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"I still have a soul? Then where did I get this 20 bucks?" - Indie Rock Pete, Diesel Sweeties

[Lasombra]

Ick, religion talk. I probably should stay away, as my short temper makes me a bit touchy, but I'll wade in. Fasheem, I know how you feel. I was forced to Confirm, but later chose to change my religion. Now I'm Lokean and happy. But I admit the touch of religion was what first drew me to Kurt. The way I saw it was not a burn on atheists, but simply an attempt to add a bit of diversity, so to speak.

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No matter where you go, no matter what you do, no matter what troubles you may encounter in life --- there are nine hundred million people in China who really couldn?t care less. So you might as well have a good time.
===={::??@m??::}====

[BAMF!]

First of all i'd like to bid a big Greetings and Salutations to BAMF BOY!

Wow, some pretty heavy conversation going on in this thread!
Personally I dont like it when the creators focus too much on any one aspect of Kurt's personality, be it his happy-go-lucky side, his flirtatious side, his religious side, etc.
One of the things that i've always liked about the character is his compassion and I believe that a lot of that stems from his faith. Regardless of where any of us might stand on the religious issues, i'm pretty sure we all agree that trying to turn him into a full fledged Priest took waaaay too much away from so many of the other great aspects of Kurt's character.

With the news of him ending his training, and a new X-writer coming aboard i've got a good feeling that we'll being seeing some long-missed sides of Nightcrawler's personality pretty soon!

BAMF!

[Fasheem]

What is Lokean?

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"I still have a soul? Then where did I get this 20 bucks?" - Indie Rock Pete, Diesel Sweeties

[Lasombra]

A Lokean is a person who chooses to follow the god, Loki from Norse mythology.
Have you ever had the experience, when a lot of stupid little stuff is happening to you, you get more and more upset, and then you suddenly reach this point where you draw back and say, "How silly I am, and how silly life is, and why am I getting so upset about this? This is really pretty damned funny, when you think about it!" You really laugh at yourself and the absurdity of the world. And just at that point, the annoying stuff just STOPS, like magic. It's like someone was waiting for you to catch on, and now that you've come to your senses, the lesson stops. That's basically what I have come to embrace. To put it another way: "Someday you'll look back on this and laugh."

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No matter where you go, no matter what you do, no matter what troubles you may encounter in life --- there are nine hundred million people in China who really couldn?t care less. So you might as well have a good time.
===={::??@m??::}====